ZAURIEL is Out

Comments, anyone?

(You’re allowed to be critical.)

(More on Doctor Fate after I get some sleep…)

28 Responses to “ZAURIEL is Out”

  1. Mario Di Giacomo Says:

    Just moving this bit over from the other post:

    Mario: “I have to confess that the Zauriel one-shot didn’t work for me, once he left that classroom. Biblical language aside, it could have been a Hawkman story.”

    In a weird way, that almost doesn’t bother me — I’ve wanted to write Hawkman, too, for a long time — but I know what you mean. I’ll discuss it in the comments on the Zauriel post.

  2. Scratchie Says:

    Well, since we’re allowed to be critical, I have to confess that I found my eyes glazing over at times. The Hawkman comparison is apt, I guess. I’m not that familiar with his history outside the JLA, but I had the same reaction (glazing) to the Rann-Thanagar War and the recent Hawkman issues of JSA Classified.

    It seemed like too much exposition about characters and situations I’d never heard of before, with no hook to pull me in. Surprisingly for a Steve Gerber book, I didn’t find any sort of human element to capture my interest either. Steve is usually good at the sort of thing Roger Zelazny used to do all the time: take a superpowered person in an extraordinary situation, but tell the story from a viewpoint that allows an ordinary, non-super reader to empathize with the hero. I didn’t find any of that in this comic. I’ll have to re-read it some day when I didn’t get up at 6:00 in the morning.

    That said, the schoolroom scene was great, though, even if it was reminscent of a Matt Groening cartoon from 20 years ago. 😀

    It probably didn’t help that I didn’t like the art either. It was an odd combination of “too rough” and “too busy” that probably contributed to my eye fatigue. There were too many panels that didn’t seem to have any indication of what was important, or where I was supposed to be directing my attention.

    Oh well, can’t win ’em all. I’m still eagerly awaiting the DF series.

  3. Jack Holt (Bgztl) Says:

    I really liked Snejbjerg’s art in Helmet of Fate: Zauriel. By simplifying Zauriel’s form a little he made the character much more accessible for this tory. After all Z-angel was talking to kids at a school for a lot of the book.

    That entire sequence was priceless.

    The reason for Zauriel’s visit to Hyathis’ homeworld seemed little forced. There’s something about Morrison’s conception of the meta-magical universe springing up to hunt down and kill everyone that I find inherently limiting. The same theme keeps popping up in many the DC titles starting with Seven Soldiers and carrying through to Uncle Sam and the Freedom Fighters and now this book.

    The individual stories have been good, but I confess the scheme of the stories is inherently disinteresting to me.

    I believe in the power of individuals over their own destiny and this idea of periodic mystical doom visiting the earth and the cosmos around it does nothing for me.

    End-of-rant.

    The rest of the adventure was more or less standard space fare. I’m guessing that little puff of pant-matter on Zauriel’s heel will be showing up later on in the series. The only question is: Did Hyathis plant it . . . or the other!!

    It’s still tough for me to see the connection between the one-shots and the series (as announced) except symbolically. They just don’t seem that connected from the little bit we’ve heard about thenew series.

  4. petetheretailer Says:

    I loved the school bit too, and I think the art worked well for that. But the adventure part would’ve fared better under another artist, probably with a longer story. It seemed a bit like a summary of a really cool tale.

    Still, I rather enjoyed it.

  5. Steve Gerber Says:

    I don’t *completely* disagree with any of these comments, except where Peter’s art is concerned. I thought he did a fabulous job on this story.

    Coming back to superhero comics after such a long absence presented some interesting challenges for me, not least of which was getting accustomed again to the pacing of that type of story generally — and then figuring out how I was going to adapt it to my own style in particular.

    As I mentioned in an earlier post, I discovered as I was writing this script that I had simply bit off more than could be chewed in 22 pages. By the time I made that discovery, though, it was, well, too late to turn back.

    The adventure portion of the story *is* too cramped. There were all kinds of things I wanted to do with Hyathis, Okeontis, Alstairian society, the causes of the war, etc., etc., but it was impossible in the space allotted.

    My fault entirely. Maybe one day I’ll get a chance to return to the Zauriel character and the Antares system and flesh (or fungus) out what I started.

    That said, I still think the book was a lot of fun. I enjoyed writing the Sunday school scene and the angelic banter between Zauriel and Malachy. The exchange between Zauriel and Umbok contains one of my all-time favorite lines. The tension between Zauriel and Okeontis came through, I think, but not nearly as powerfully (or explicitly) as I wanted it to.

    (Aside to Scratchie: I don’t watch any Matt Groening cartoons, so I really can’t speak to the question of similarities. I doubt I’ve seen more than fifteen minutes’ worth of *The Simpsons* in the entire eon-and-a-half the show’s been on the air.)

    Jack Holt: “There’s something about Morrison’s conception of the meta-magical universe springing up to hunt down and kill everyone that I find inherently limiting. … I believe in the power of individuals over their own destiny and this idea of periodic mystical doom visiting the earth and the cosmos around it does nothing for me.”

    I didn’t really see Okeontis quite that way. Her aim was (is?) to subjugate and convert the universe, not kill everything in it. The fungus was (is?) simply an organism following nature’s (or supernature’s) imperative to grow or die.

    In the microcosm, it’s generally true that individuals can exert considerable control over their own destinies. In the macrocosm — well, just ask the dinosaurs.

    The DOCTOR FATE series will be developing what I hope is an interesting thesis as to why and how certain incursions from the unseen world take place. I’ll be curious to hear what you think of it.

    Okay, I need some more sleep now. Then I’ll be back to talk about DOCTOR FATE.

  6. Greg Fischer Says:

    The classroom scene was hilarious and I enjoyed the recap with Malachy as it, in a broad sense, tied the series together. As you said, the problem was, once all the setup was completed, there was barely any room left for the clash between Zauriel and Okeontis. Still, fun issue, and I laughed again when Detective Chimp got conked by the Helmet of Fate.

    I thought the art was a really good fit for the story.

  7. Mario Di Giacomo Says:

    Steve:”The DOCTOR FATE series will be developing what I hope is an interesting thesis as to why and how certain incursions from the unseen world take place. I’ll be curious to hear what you think of it.”

    All I ask is that there be a sense of the supernatural about it. Otherwise, the only thing that differentiates them from your average superhero is a tendency to bad poetry. 😀

  8. Greg Fischer Says:

    That’s my problem with Shadowpact. It doesn’t have that occult vibe I was hoping for. It just feels like a superhero book.

  9. beau Says:

    Mario said:

    Otherwise, the only thing that differentiates them from your average superhero is a tendency to bad poetry.

    Heh. Or speak in mirror English, as Alice did in her one-shot. Oi.

    I’m countin’ on SG to pull some rabbits out of this hat. Been working my way through “The Essential Man-Thing” (never read any of them before except the HtD tie-ins) and am convinced Steve will make this worth my monthly trip to the comic store.

  10. Starocotes Says:

    Okay, I finished it to and was surpised but a bit disappointed as well.

    Steve you mentioned that you had biten of more then you could handle and for me that was rather obvious. Much of the happenings on Alstair was much to forced in my eyes.

    Besides that it was a great read. I’m still looking forward to the Dr. Fate series.

  11. Steve Gerber Says:

    Starocotes: “Steve you mentioned that you had biten of more then you could handle and for me that was rather obvious. Much of the happenings on Alstair was much to forced in my eyes.”

    Not more than *I* could handle, just more than I could handle in 22 pages. I think Pete got it exactly right when he said that the latter part of the book read like a *synopsis* of what the story should have been.

    Anyway, lesson learned. So far, DOCTOR FATE hasn’t presented any similar pacing problems.

  12. A.L. Baroza Says:

    I was okay with the pacing of the Alstair segment. I think we’re so accustomed now to decompressed storytelling that it seemed sketchy, but to me it’s just oldschool storytelling. It was, I felt, a proper introduction to concepts and characters that could be further expanded on at a later date. Maybe the synopsis of the other three helmet stories could have been shorter.

    What made the book for me was your wry commentary throughout on the nature of heaven-inspired intercessions into the political arena, especially the line about heaven favoring the establishment of democracy everywhere except in heaven. That’s genius right there.

    And yes, the “Thor in the maltshop” moment was very enjoyable as well.

  13. Starocotes Says:

    Steve: “Not more than I could handle, just more than I could handle in 22 pages.”

    Sorry, that was what I meant. I really would have liked to see what the story would have been with 32 or so pages.

  14. Steve Gerber Says:

    Mario: “All I ask is that there be a sense of the supernatural about it. Otherwise, the only thing that differentiates them from your average superhero is a tendency to bad poetry.”

    Uh-oh.

    (Joey — if you’re reading this — do we have time to change that one incantation that starts, “Roses are red, Demonic entitiies are blue”…?)

  15. Mario Di Giacomo Says:

    It can’t be any worse than some of the stuff Etrigan has come up with. 😀

  16. Scratchie Says:

    Steve wrote: “(Aside to Scratchie: I don’t watch any Matt Groening cartoons, so I really can’t speak to the question of similarities. I doubt I’ve seen more than fifteen minutes’ worth of The Simpsons in the entire eon-and-a-half the show’s been on the air.)”

    Actually it was a “Life in Hell” newspaper strip from the mid-80s. Maybe “cartoon” wasn’t the best word to use.

    “Life in Hell” was definitely a hoot and worth checking out if you see one of the anthologies in the bookstore. One of the things that kept me sane when I was in college (the strip went downhill fast once Groening started working on the Simpsons, but the first two or three anthologies are all pretty hilarious).

    Anyway, just busting your chops. It was just a list of kids’ questions about God and heaven (e.g. “If you lose a leg, is it waiting for you in heaven?”) and I’m sure he wasn’t the first one to use that bit.

  17. Rudy Says:

    I don’t have any comment on Zauriel as I haven’t read it. I was just hoping that you could email me, Steve and answer the following question:

    Is Hard Time Season 2 going to be collected?
    I just wanted to thank you for that wonderful, perfect series. I wish it could have gone on longer but as least we had some closure.
    Great work man.
    Please let me know if there’s any plans to collect it in trade paperback!
    [email protected]

  18. Adam McGovern Says:

    Gevalt, no more than one new-comic-day later and the complaints bureau is already swamped as I get caught up on my reading. But I thought Steve’s ZAURIEL script was a worthy entry in the burgeoning philosophical-thriller genre (Specter, Promethea, Devi, etc.) and that the art had a satisfying European-comics feel and a refreshingly unheavenly roughness. I’ve been so stoked for the DOCTOR FATE series I can barely pee; still, I did wonder if the Great Skeptic could suspend cynicism enough to portray characters whose powers are based on belief. But the ZAURIEL one-shot lifted all my own doubts; a fascinating, adventurous and learned exploration into the worldly and the unseen. There’s no irony without a deflected desire to believe, after all, and who better than Gerber to both depict the self-effacement and send up the self-importance that a magician needs in equal measure? I’m counting down to April, and feel it’s more than a matter of simple Fate.

  19. Tom Walker Says:

    The opening “Thor in malt shop” sequence was nicely paced. Alas the planet sequence reminded me of some six page 1950’s filler story at the end of a regular comic book. Granted we have promises of heavenly virgins and demonic fungaloid zombie suicide bombers in a bit of rather heavy handed I-dont-know-what. More a precis than a full blooded tale, though, but fair enough in an extremely old fashioned sort of way.

    One thing I like is that Gerbs still knows how to use comics to demonstrate how genuinely Far you can go with your ideas.. a quick souffle whipped up whilst something more substantial is maturing itself, hopefully.

    btw I’m far happier to have a new Gerbs story to be rude about than to remain politely in hunger or thirst for new stuff!

  20. David Brusey Says:

    Welcome back, Steve, please stick around. Its like the old days.

  21. scott Says:

    I loved it! It was a great adventure in that I felt like I went on a journey. I was afraid you’d offend me as a Christian because of your own beliefs, but I actually came away feeling very positive. What I got from the religious examination was much the same as what I believe. If you believe, you believe. The questions are there to make you doubt and become cynical, but if you can look past them and really believe, you will see GOD IS GOOD.

    Bravo! I can’t wait to start getting awesome tales like this every single month!!!!! Bring on FATE!

  22. Steve Gerber Says:

    I would only differ in this regard, Scott: I think the questions are there because God or evolution gave human beings a brain that is capable of self-awareness and reason. Evolution demands that we use it, if only to survive as a species. Somehow, I find it impossible to imagine a benevolent god who would demand any less.

  23. Charles Bryan Says:

    Just got Zauriel today — since the closest shop is 40 miles away, I go once a month to pick up the pull stack — and I tend to agree with A.L. Baroza above that we’ve become so used to stories that take a gazillion issues that we’re not used to a done-in-one. Frankly, I’ll take 50s style six-page fillers if they’re well done. I miss those kinds of stories.

    Yes, the classroom scene was pricelessly funny and reminiscent of “Thor in the maltshop”, but the exchanges with the fellow angel were also very well-done.

    The adventure to another world, while brief, also reminded me of Thor — during those days that he was busy meeting the Recorder of Rigel and Ego the Living Planet.

    The only part of the book that disappointed me was the recap page, which I guess was necessary for those who may have read only this issue.

    However, the word “jejune” appeared in a super-hero comic. What more could I want?

    Well, more Zauriel. Maybe as an ongoing, maybe as the occasional mini-series, but definitely by Gerber and Snejberg.

    I’ll actually read it again, which I almost never do with comics these days.

  24. Steve Gerber Says:

    Incidentally, did anybody notice that this version of the Antares star system and the character of Hyathis actually date back a-ways?

    They initially appeared in *Justice League of America* #3, dated February-March, 1961.

  25. Charles Bryan Says:

    You sly human — now I’ve gotta grab that JLA Showcase volume and take another look at the story.

    Shades of the Headmen!

  26. gordon Says:

    “Providence save us from the jejune and heavily armed.”

    I imagine this on your tombstone — though I’m hoping that’s many years off!

  27. Stephen Payne Says:

    I realize this is late, but I just got the book this weekend. Very entertaining, the opening in the classroom with being assaulted by questions is anybody’s fear, not just an angel’s.

    Kudos sir on handling the situation so well. Crap, I know with there being several entries since this one the chance of getting a response at this point is minimum, but what the heck. I was wondering if you gained any more appreciation for the character of Zauriel, of it he still seems distant to you?

  28. Alistair Says:

    I’m late too. Had to read it a couple of times though(unlike Hard Time), but loved every minute. Yes, I thought it was kind of old style storytelling. And I liked the ‘wryness’ throughout. Much to enjoy, ponder.

    Thank you.